Recently, Pistrina Liturgica had an article (click here), written in response to several dissenting emails about an earlier PL article (click here) that dealt with the “Liénart liability.” Archbishop Liénart, who ordained Marcel Lefebvre, was reputed to be a Freemason; and, being a Mason, if he had deliberately wrong intentions when conferring Lefebvre’s orders, those orders (and, therefore, any further orders conferred by Lefebvre) might be invalid. The dissenting emails claimed that this could not be so. They claimed that if Liénart (or anyone else) uses the right form, one must presume the ordaining minister’s to have the right intentions, and that this therefore makes the conferred orders valid.
And, to back up their claim, the dissenters cited something written by Anthony Cekada as their “proof.” Phony Tony stated that “this principle [the presumption that the right intention exists] is affirmed as certain theological doctrine” – “this principle” being the following, written by the noted theologian, Bernard Leeming, S.J.: “The minister of a sacrament is presumed to intend what the rite means.” The problem with this “proof,” however (as PL’s article went on to explain), is that Erroneous Antonius conveniently “forgot” to include the rest of what Leeming had to say: “Nevertheless, if in fact he resolves not to do what the Church does, he has not sufficient intention and the sacrament is invalid.”
This, for sure, is not the only example of Tony “conveniently forgetting” things. Phony Tony habitually uses willful omission of critical facts (and other forms of willful deception) to get all his false points across. He did it, for instance, on Schiavo; and he did it on his article School Dazed (his failed attempt at trying to explain away the scandalous events at SGG’s school in 2009). He also did it in his failed attempt to “prove” the validity of Dannie’s one-handed ordination.1 And now, on this latest Liénart issue, Tony once again willfully omits a crucial piece of information (that would blow his whole argument). And yet, although he was roundly beaten on every point in this and everything else he’s written, his “hard core” loyalists staunchly sing his praises.
After PL’s article, for instance, completely destroyed their claim that “Father Cekada beautifully disproved [Thuc’s] defective intention ‘canard,’” did they send in any further emails or “comments” admitting that they were wrong, and/or retracting what they said? No, they did not. PL’s undeniable evidence that they were wrong was met with stony silence. In their subsequent “comments” to PL’s article,they simply ignored what PL had said, switched to other subjects, and started talking about some of their other “pet issues.” They simply ignored the truth that was staring them in the face.2
What, one may ask, motivates these people to ignore the truth? And what is it that makes them remain so blindly loyal to a liar? No matter that Checkie had not “beautifully disproved the defective intention ‘canard.’” No matter that he was proven utterly wrong. No matter that their vain hopes in Phony Tony were utterly dashed. None of this matters to them: Tony is their hero -- their “ultimate authority on everything.” Like mesmerized kindergartners, they eagerly (and obediently) hang on his every word. It’s almost as if Tony were some sort of sacred oracle. Whatever Tony says is “gospel”: “My Tony, right or wrong!” What, one wonders, instills (and perpetuates) this kind of hero worship in people? When people are that obstinate that they completely ignore the facts, how does one cope with such intransigence? How does one change their mindset?
The short answer is, one does not – and that’s the problem with Tradistan. It’s a classic case – a perfect illustration -- of the cult mentality. As Pistrina correctly noted about them in another article (click here), it’s an addiction. The Gerties (and their counterparts in Florida) KNOW that Dannie, Tony, and the Donstrosity are liars, bullies, and frauds – but they support them anyway. However, one could almost understand why the Gerties come to “the show.” After all, people like a good performance; and most people are also creatures of habit: they don’t like “change.” And one could almost understand why they put up with the know-nothing “school,” the wasteful spending, the boondoggle “apostolates,” and all the rest.
But one cannot understand why they would support a lie when they know the truth. It is one thing to make a false claim. But to make that claim, then to have it proven wrong by independently verifiable proof, and then to respond to that proof with stony silence – that is quite another thing. That is “obstinacy on steroids” -- the epitome of “stonewalling.” But why do they do this? Because, again, they’re a cult, that’s why -- and that’s what cults do: over time, little by little, they condition people to do their bidding, to obey, and to believe that the cult is the one and only path to “salvation.” They replace rational and logical thought with irrationality and blind obedience. And that is why the hard-core of SGG (and MHT), for all intents and purposes, will never change: again, because they’re a cult. Schiavo and the events of 2009 didn’t move them -- and this latest “silent denial” of theirs is just one more reinforcing confirmation that this is still the case -- that their irrational intransigence is still intact.
And that is what makes it so difficult to deal with people of that sort. How does one reason with them? How does one engage in a logical discussion with them, when they don’t observe the rules of logic? What does one do in the face of such intransigence? What is one to do? Keep trying, that’s what. The Gerties’ infatuation with the cult-masters, as PL noted, is an addiction; and addiction is a slow, gradual process -- so one cannot expect to reverse that process “overnight.” That is why we will continue in our efforts to save the Gerties from themselves: because such a “de-programming” process takes time. And lastly, we do it because we realize that, even if we can’t change them, we are at least deterring others from falling victim to these predators.
And, as it turns out, we are “making some headway.” For instance, the “wholesale defection days” at SGG and MHT might be over, but defections still do occur. Plus, “attrition” is taking its toll: the congregation at SGG is aging; and as the older Gerties die off, the younger ones are not stepping up to take their place. (Dannie himself has noted this: “The dead are gone, the devout grow older and can’t come, and no one takes their place anymore.”) And not only is attendance down, but so are collections. The Gerties who still go there are giving less than they used to. (Collections, in fact, are actually less than what they were a decade ago, which is not good for Dannie -- especially when inflation is factored in.) And, considering the fact that Dannie now has “more mouths to feed” (his crew of assistant “clergy”), and considering that his prematurely crumbling cult center is now starting to cost him real money to fix – and then factoring in the financial millstone (of the know-nothing “school”) that Dannie still has around his neck -- the picture is actually worse than what it seems.
So, these two things – the dwindling attendance and the dwindling collections – are telltale signs that we are, in fact, “making headway” -- that the Gerties are getting the message, and that their attitudes are changing. That is why we’ll keep our message out there; one cannot “give up.” (The other thing to bear in mind, again, is that the Gerties are not our only “audience.”) So, we shall continue in our efforts – for those reasons, and because that is what anyone with a Catholic conscience would do. The cult center’s days are numbered, in more ways than one. And you too can continue in your efforts to help “number their days”: Keep your money in your wallet. Don’t give it to Dannie.
Starve the Beast!
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1 On Schiavo, he stated (amongst other falsehoods) that the cost of keeping Terri Schiavo alive placed a “grave burden on society,”and that her husband had “the right before God” not to “sustain life for as long as possible in a body that was obviously shutting down for good.” [Tony’s bold emphasis and underlining.] The problem here is that Terri’s body was not “obviously shutting down for good,” nor was she on a respirator or “life support” of any kind. She was simply being tube-fed, which for decades had not been – as Tony falsely contended -- considered “extraordinary means.” (It’s also cheaper than conventional feeding.) And she was not (nor would she everhave been) a “grave burden on society.” (There was actually plenty of insurance money awarded for her care – and her family offered to take care of her if and when that money ever ran out.) She was simply starved and dehydrated to death by court order, initiated by a husband who wanted to keep the insurance money for himself and his new live-in girlfriend. In making these assertions justifying Terri’s murder, Tony ignored all of this (and other medical facts refuting his assumptions) – all of which were readily available and made public at the time.
And in hisSchool Dazed article, it was much the same: Tony willfully ignored the testimony of numerous eyewitnesses, many of whom were so incensed by the lies and distortions in his article that they were moved to write their own accounts of what actually happened. Eventually, much of this was consolidated in a six-part series of articles, School Dazed Revisited, which systematically and methodically put to rest all of Tony’s lies and distortions. (Click here, here, here, here, here, and here for all six parts.)
Tony’s treatise on one-handed ordinations also suffered the same fate. (This was the one which -- PL noted -- contained “perverse mistranslations of infallible papal teaching.” Pistrina, in a lengthy rebuttal (click here), completely destroyed all of Tony’s false arguments (along with the last vestiges of Tony’s fictional reputation as a “scholar”).
2 This -- denying the obvious truth, or giving one “the silent treatment” – is not a new thing. It’s as old as the Garden of Eden. But In Tradistan (as Vince Lombardi might say), “It’s not everything; it’s the only thing.” Tony, for instance, obstinately refuses to say that he was horribly wrong about Schiavo – despite the overwhelming evidence against him. Invariably, the cult-masters stubbornly cling to their erroneous positions (even though they haven’t the proverbial “snowball’s chance in Hades” of carrying their point); and they simply remain silent, hoping that, in time, people will “forgive and forget.” They do this because they have no other option: they know that people will remember what they hear, and forget what they don’t hear. And now, their culties are using that same strategy.
Just curious – does Lay Pulpit have a definite opinion as to whether the Liénart, and subsequent Lefebvre ordinations, are valid or not?
ReplyDeleteI understood, many years ago, that Liénart was a 33rd degree Mason. Has this been proved beyond a shadow of a doubt, anyone? Wouldn’t induction, to any degree, into the Masons result in an automatic excommunication?
(I realize excommunication doesn’t invalidate a bishop’s ability to confect valid sacraments.) If indeed he was a Mason, up to and including the 33rd degree, why would he even want to confect valid sacraments, in particular, ordinations? Why would he intend to do as the Church intends? Wouldn’t this go contrary to the goals and intentions of the Masons? Wouldn’t their goal, as part of their destruction of the Church, be to have him perform invalid ordinations? This would result in all the men he ordained obviously not being real priests and not being able to confect valid sacraments. It is all so very confusing. I would like to believe the Lefebvre ordinations and consecrations to be valid. I am now beginning, again, to wonder. When will this all end?
No, we do not have an opinion, one way or the other, on Liénart’s validity, simply because we’re not qualified to do so. (We do not possess Pistrina Liturgica’s wide theological knowledge base, so we couldn’t even begin to offer an opinion on this – or any opinion as to the validity of those he ordained, etc.) And, we might add, Pistrina didn’t claim anything “definite” as well; they only said that, if there is doubt about his orders – and there is – then why don’t any of those who are part of his lineage “take “the safe route” and “get fixed.” (PL anticipated the fears that you (and others) might have about the validity of LeFebvre’s orders (and his descendents). (That was one of the main points of their article, in fact.)
DeleteThe only point that we make in our article (and the only one that we’re qualified to make) is that the “proof” to which Cekada’s apologists referred was incomplete (and hence invalid), because Tony forgot to include the whole quote (from Leeming) regarding Liénart. We share your concerns about “where will it all end.” It could easily “end” if those who were ordained by LeFebvre would just “get themselves fixed” – but they’re probably to stubborn (and too proud) to do that.
Pistrina doesn’t have an article this week. Is there something wrong?
ReplyDeleteYes, we noticed that too; but they finally did post -- which we're sure you too saw by now.
ReplyDeleteNormal people swallow their food. Normal people breathe air. If you cannot swallow your food and breath air that most definitely constitutes extraordinary. Now, do I think that Schiavo should have been entrusted to her parents' care? Of course. Was the woman dying or shutting down as Cekada suggests? No. She was clearly in a PVS, and was being tube fed, but may have been able to swallow. But that doesn't change the fact that tube feeding is extraordinary, and, by the way, I could never verify that Michael Schiavo had a live in girlfriend or was the beneficiary of an insurace policy. If you have some source, I'm curious.
ReplyDeleteFirstly, she was NOT in a PVS (persistent vegetative state). Secondly, tube feeding is NOT an “extraordinary means” for keeping someone alive. It has been a routine way of nourishing debilitated people for decades (and is actually cheaper than conventional feeding). Third, Michael DID have a live-in girlfriend; and it was reported by more than one news source. If you can’t “verify that” for yourself, then I suggest you go check news sources from that time; it was common knowledge. Fourth, the beneficiary of the insurance money was probably Terri herself (but the husband had “power of attorney,” and chose to use it for himself and his girlfriend rather than spend it on his wife).
DeleteFifth, it’s amazing that you were able to decipher that Terri Sciavo was in a “PVS” (which she wasn’t), but you didn’t know any of the other facts that are now common knowledge (and which were reported by several mainstream media sources). Also, let me reassure you that, like “normal people” (as you put it), Terri was able to swallow, and she could certainly breathe air – but it was easier (and cheaper) to tube-feed her. But, whatever the case, there was no moral justification for starving and dehydrating her to death. That was murder.
How would you respond to this blogger? He’s gone head to head with Cekada and doesn’t follow any party line:
ReplyDeletehttp://introiboadaltaredei2.blogspot.com/2018/05/intent-on-causing-harm.html?m=1
In response to Anon. 10:34 AM, let us just say that “we have no dog in the fight” concerning “validity of orders,” “intention when cnnfecting a sacrament,” etc. The only comment we have on such is that IF there is doubt about validity of a priest’s orders, etc., then the ”safe route” is for that priest to get conditionally ordained to ensure his lineage. It’s an easy enough thing to do, so why not do it – especially when something as serious as that is at stake?
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